How Are WE supposed to Pray today? Peter's way, or Paul's way?

[Christine]

Peter preached "pray whatever" prayers....did Paul?



Pray Whatever Prayers =this is what Peter preached.

Mat 21:22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.

Mk 11:24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

John 14:13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

John 16:23 Whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.

1 Jo 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 1 Jo 5:15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.



No Whatever Prayers =Paul preached this.

2 Cor 12:8-10 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Phi 4:6,7 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;

7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

[Christine]

I wonder how many here have questioned WHY God doesnt answer THEIR prayers the way the Bible says that those in TIMES PAST were told to pray?

Theres a REASON.....God isnt IN that program for prayer today! We dont PRAY whatsoever we wish and God grants it in this dispensation. God has CHANGED the HOUSE RULES.

Why pray for things that God has told US, members of His Body , are not the issue today?

 Why pray for physical healing when God says "His grace is sufficient?"

 Why pray for physical blessings, when God has told us we have all SPIRITUAL blessings.

 WE walk by FAITH and not by SIGHT as  did those in times PAST. Israel REQUIRED a sign...WE are NOT told to look for "signs" but to walk by faith in what God has already DONE. The bible says "an evil and adulterous generation SEEKS a SIGN"...He hasnt changed His mind on that one! WINK 

[Christine]

Interesting material here.

[MaricoG]

Why pray for physical healing when God says "His grace is sufficient?"

 Why pray for physical blessings, when God has told us we have all SPIRITUAL blessings.

 WE walk by FAITH and not by SIGHT as  did those in times PAST. Israel REQUIRED a sign...WE are NOT told to look for "signs" but to walk by faith in what God has already DONE. The bible says "an evil and adulterous generation SEEKS a SIGN"...He hasnt changed His mind on that one! WINK 

Christine, I do see that there is a different way of praying!  However, we are also told to pray without ceasing...and if one were sick and in need of healing we would naturally apply to the Father from whom all heavenly blessiings flow.  However, if we are not healed, it is a good example of how sufficient His grace is....  Does that make sense?

Myself, I am quite ill, and often I ask the Lord to help me, and He often does give me comfort or lessens the pain.  However, because I have not been miraculously healed, to  me, means that His grace is sufficient, and those times of comfort are the sufficiencey of that grace...

We are trying to sell our house now...and definitely are praying for His help in the sale and in the finding of our new home. 

I definitely understand that we walk by faith and not by sight..but I also understand that God does answer prayer.

Phi 4:6  Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Is what you are saying, the difference between Peter's prayer and Pauls, is that in the dispensation of Peter, when they prayed, prayer was always answered? I am missing something of what you said, could you point it out to me, please?

[Christine]

Christine, I do see that there is a different way of praying!  However, we are also told to pray without ceasing...and if one were sick and in need of healing we would naturally apply to the Father from whom all heavenly blessiings flow.  However, if we are not healed, it is a good example of how sufficient His grace is....  Does that make sense?

Healing is always associated with the sign Nation. You will note that Paul very rarely mentions praying for healing or a physical infirmity...in fact, we are told that he left Timothy sick at one point. OUR promises with regard to health in this dispensation are quite different. He says "My grace IS sufficient for you."

He also tells us that "we are to glory in our infirmities because the power of God is made manifest in our weaknesses"......ouch...now that one hurts, doesn't it?   He says that "He promises to work ALL things together for the good of those who are called according to His purpose."  I don't see promises for physical healing for us, at least not on demand. It is just not how God works in this present dispensation of Grace.

He is way more interested in our spiritual state of mind, as this physical body IS perishing. This old body aint goin with me to heaven and I just don't see God putting alot of time and effort into overhauling it when we are told that to live is Christ, and to die is GAIN...oh boy, now I've gotten into meddling instead of preaching....LOL LOL

Can we pray about our physical infirmities? Sure, we can take anything to Him in prayer and He fully understands our concerns in this area, but He wants us to adjust our thinking to show that we understand that these physical bodies are NOT His number one priority in this dispensation. "It IS appointed unto man ONCE to die...." and we are all born dying. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to the actual ACT of dying, but the retiring from the human race sounds DIVINE!!!!

Myself, I am quite ill, and often I ask the Lord to help me, and He often does give me comfort or lessens the pain.  However, because I have not been miraculously healed, to  me, means that His grace is sufficient, and those times of comfort are the sufficiency of that grace...

I know you are ill and I am soooooo sorry ....constant pain can be a challenge to say the least, and I really do feel compassion for those who must deal with the physical ailments along the way. Do you have fibromyalgia? I never did ask what it is that you are dealing with. There is nothing wrong with appropriating the daily grace He gives you and leaning on Him when it just becomes more than you can handle...at those times we DO find that His grace is indeed sufficient, but without those times, how would our faith ever be stretched?

We are trying to sell our house now...and definitely are praying for His help in the sale and in the finding of our new home. 

I definitely understand that we walk by faith and not by sight..but I also understand that God does answer prayer.

Oh my...you are in the middle of a very stressful time and stress aggravates most painful conditions so try to pace yourself and take good care of your emotions during this time. God Does answer prayer that is in accordance with His revealed will for us. We can discuss later where we find that revealed will for us in this dispensation of GRACE...its a fascinating study...and has NOTHING to do with our physical well being, as you will see.

Phi 4:6  Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Aaaaamen, girl.

Is what you are saying, the difference between Peter's prayer and Pauls, is that in the dispensation of Peter, when they prayed, prayer was always answered? I am missing something of what you said, could you point it out to me, please?

Check out the scriptures listed again and look at the differences. Whatever they asked for , God said He would do it. They were under a "IF" you do this, then God will do that program as well. They were promised immediate and temporal blessings.

We are not promised that in this dispensation of GRACE. We have different promises, dependent on different circumstances. Our blessings are not  temporal in nature as  much as they are spiritual blessings.

These are all NEW ideas...just kind of roll them around in your head and God will bring them to the forefront when He wants you to look at them more closely up the road. You don't have to nail these down all in one fell swoop...ya know what I mean...but its good to be AWARE of the areas that God may be working on as you grow in GRACE, and then you won't feel blindsided. Does that sound reasonable?

I was hoping I would see you today...I miss yakkin with you here.

Keep us posted on your house and how the move is going...and remember...HIGH STRESS time when you are moving....take it SLOW, and do NOT over do it!  Just say "YES MOM..." and I will leave you alone....ROFL

[MaricoG]

Yes, Mom.   

He also tells us that "we are to glory in our infirmities because the power of God is made manifest in our weaknesses"......ouch...now that one hurts, doesn't it?

 

If I knew exactly what that means it might not hurt at all....I wonder if it is when I realize that the illness that I have keeps me close to the Lord, and am grateful for that....?  That He found a way to keep me close and dependent on Him....?  Because, otherwise, I might stray...into things that would not be good for me and my witness....

He is way more interested in our spiritual state of mind, as this physical body IS perishing. This old body aint goin with me to heaven and I just don't see God putting alot of time and effort into overhauling it when we are told that to live is Christ, and to die is GAIN...oh boy, now I've gotten into meddling instead of preaching....LOL LOL

Yes, I have been trying a new and rather expensive face cream...and I wondered if I should be doing this, if it should matter to me as a believer....but then, I think about my husband, and I do want to keep this face good for him.... LOL  How is that for rationalizing....

Can we pray about our physical infirmities? Sure, we can take anything to Him in prayer and He fully understands our concerns in this area, but He wants us to adjust our thinking to show that we understand that these physical bodies are NOT His number one priority in this dispensation. "It IS appointed unto man ONCE to die...." and we are all born dying. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to the actual ACT of dying, but the retiring from the human race sounds DIVINE!!!!

I am with you on this one.  I am  not afraid of dying at all...however, the getting there has caused me a few moments of trepidation....

I know you are ill and I am soooooo sorry ....constant pain can be a challenge to say the least, and I really do feel compassion for those who must deal with the physical ailments along the way. Do you have fibromyalgia? I never did ask what it is that you are dealing with. There is nothing wrong with appropriating the daily grace He gives you and leaning on Him when it just becomes more than you can handle...at those times we DO find that His grace is indeed sufficient, but without those times, how would our faith ever be stretched?

Sometimes I have told God that there just is not any more stretch left!  He always shows me there certainly is more left! LOL  My issues are boring and long.... But yes, one of my problems is severe FMS...it would shock you if I started listing all the problems such as CFS, CPS, SMCD, CS....and on and on.  ROFL  If I put those behind my name, you would think I was extraodinarily smart, not sick!  Oh...that is funny!

God Does answer prayer that is in accordance with His revealed will for us. We can discuss later where we find that revealed will for us in this dispensation of GRACE...its a fascinating study...and has NOTHING to do with our physical well being, as you will see.

I would love to do that!  What are you studying on the Paltalk study?  I will try on Wednesday to figure that all out...God willing and the creek don't rise....

These are all NEW ideas...just kind of roll them around in your head and God will bring them to the forefront when He wants you to look at them more closely up the road. You don't have to nail these down all in one fell swoop...ya know what I mean...but its good to be AWARE of the areas that God may be working on as you grow in GRACE, and then you won't feel blindsided. Does that sound reasonable?

Yes it does...but I have a real sense of urgency with all of this...that I need to know it all as soon as possible. Not my normal impatience...but a real sense of needing to "redeem the time"....

I was hoping I would see you today...I miss yakkin with you here.

OH...thank you that is so sweet of you!  I have been dealing with "issues"...and also deciding where to spend my time.  This is going to be the place, as there is so much to learn here.   

[Christine]

You said:

OH...thank you that is so sweet of you!  I have been dealing with "issues"...and also deciding where to spend my time.  This is going to be the place, as there is so much to learn here.   

Oh yea??? Those pesky "issues" do have a way of popping up don't they??? Wink

We are so thrilled to hear that you will be spending time with us here, Mari. Your wanting to learn also fills a need in my life as well, and I thank you for the joy you give me in being able to give biblical answers to your questions.

Huuuuugs to ya , girllie.

[Christine]

2 Cor 12:8-10 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Phi 4:6,7 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;

7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 

While the whole passage is chock full of insight into the mechanics of our suffering, the last verse is very telling. Note what God says will happen when we accept with joy that which will bring about the power of Christ living IN and THRU me...is the end result "healing?" Is the end result a removal of that which afflicts me?...what DOES the Bible say WILL happen?

The peace of God WILL guard your hearts and minds...that is where the real battle is fought, folks...right between those ears! As you trust in Gods truth, your heart and mind will be guarded by the very Peace OF God, which NO ONE or nothing can ever take away from you.

Ahhhhhh...I spell RELIEF, "simply trusting".

[Lu]

It looks like he heals us spiritually during the Dispensation of Grace. (the spiritual people)
In times past, He healed physical ailments.
(a sign to the earthly people)

YFIC,  Lu

[Christine]

It looks like he heals us spirtually during the Dispension of Grace. (the spiritual people)
In times past, He healed physical ailments.
(a sign to the earthly people)

YFIC,  Lu

Yeeees, maaam, thats sure how it looks to me too! How ya doin' there, sweetcheeks. I always love it when you post. What new and wonderful things is God showing YOU this week...come on, don't be shy....tell us what God is clarifying for YOU!!

[Oasis]

Christine said,

I wonder how many here have questioned WHY God doesnt answer THEIR prayers the way the Bible says that those in TIMES PAST were told to pray?

Theres a REASON.....God isnt IN that program for prayer today! We dont PRAY whatsoever we wish and God grants it in this dispensation. God has CHANGED the HOUSE RULES.

Why pray for things that God has told US, members of His Body , are not the issue today?

 Why pray for physical healing when God says "His grace is sufficient?"

 Why pray for physical blessings, when God has told us we have all SPIRITUAL blessings.

 WE walk by FAITH and not by SIGHT as  did those in times PAST. Israel REQUIRED a sign...WE are NOT told to look for "signs" but to walk by faith in what God has already DONE. The bible says "an evil and adulterous generation SEEKS a SIGN"...He hasnt changed His mind on that one! WINK"

Lu said,

"It looks like he heals us spiritually during the Dispensation of Grace. (the spiritual people)
In times past, He healed physical ailments.
(a sign to the earthly people)"

Hi Christine and Lu!
I agree with both of you.

I started a thread on Lawton some months ago about Spiritual gifts.  I was surprised at how many there are convinced that there are men and women today who claim to be able to physically heal on demand.  There was only one there(Sandra)who understood the difference between the Spiritual and earthly in this issue...and yet she doesn't understand that this is yet another part of what separates Paul's message from Peter's.

Another thing I've finally come to understand is the difference in how to pray.  Coming from an Acts 2 position, I stuggled with this for some time.  Finally, a light bulb moment. 

Pre-Cross believers prayed for forgiveness of sin for Salvation, and continued asking for forgiveness in prayer.

Post-Cross pray believers just have to believe for Salvation, and through prayer thank God for forgiving them on the cross.

Have a great evening!

ybiC,
Kab     

[Christine]

Christine said,
"I wonder how many here have questioned WHY God doesnt answer THEIR prayers the way the Bible says that those in TIMES PAST were told to pray?

Theres a REASON.....God isnt IN that program for prayer today! We dont PRAY whatsoever we wish and God grants it in this dispensation. God has CHANGED the HOUSE RULES.

Why pray for things that God has told US, members of His Body , are not the issue today?

 Why pray for physical healing when God says "His grace is sufficient?"

 Why pray for physical blessings, when God has told us we have all SPIRITUAL blessings.

 WE walk by FAITH and not by SIGHT as  did those in times PAST. Israel REQUIRED a sign...WE are NOT told to look for "signs" but to walk by faith in what God has already DONE. The bible says "an evil and adulterous generation SEEKS a SIGN"...He hasnt changed His mind on that one! WINK"


Lu said,
"It looks like he heals us spiritually during the Dispensation of Grace. (the spiritual people)
In times past, He healed physical ailments.
(a sign to the earthly people)"

Hi Christine and Lu!
I agree with both of you.

I started a thread on Lawton some months ago about Spiritual gifts.  I was surprised at how many there are convinced that there are men and women today who claim to be able to physically heal on demand.  There was only one there(Sandra)who understood the difference between the Spiritual and earthly in this issue...and yet she doesn't understand that this is yet another part of what separates Paul's message from Peter's.

Another thing I've finally come to understand is the difference in how to pray.  Coming from an Acts 2 position, I stuggled with this for some time.  Finally, a light bulb moment. 
Pre-Cross believers prayed for forgiveness of sin for Salvation, and continued asking for forgiveness in prayer.
Post-Cross pray believers just have to believe for Salvation, and through prayer thank God for forgiving them on the cross.

Have a great evening!

ybiC,
Kab     

Amen, Kab...Here's a more concise comparison of that very issue:


Comparison of Programs. How is forgiveness of sins handled in each?

Judaism =


According to the Gospel of the KINGDOM, remission or forgiveness of sins was by WATER BAPTISM, IF first there was repentance. This is stated THREE times in the New Testament (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38)

This WAS the counsel of God for that time (Luke 7:29,30)

John the Baptist preached it, and the twelve apostles preached it. It was proclaimed for THREE years before the death of Christ, and even AFTER His death it was still the same UNCHANGED message that Peter preached on the DAY OF PENTECOST (Acts 2)

Well, then, what are we to do with Matthew 26:28.29? Where does IT fit in? The passage reads:

"For this is MY blood of the New Testament (covenant) which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it with youin MY FATHERS KINGDOM."

The key to this passage is in the phrase "My Fathers Kingdom." This is a reference to the Millennial Kingdom, and when it is set up at the SECOND COMING of Christ to the EARTH, the NEW covenant will be put into force with its emphasis on the blood of Christ.

Now, I beleive Peter knew this, because he was taught by the Lord Jesus for forty days AFTER His resurrection. (Acts 1:3)

And yet, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, did NOT offer the blood of Christ for the remission of sins on the Day of Pentecost. ANYONE filled with the HOLY SPIRIT does NOT make a mistake! The Lord Jesus Christ instructed Peter that the message AFTER His death was to be the same as the message BEFORE His death.



Christianity =

According to the Gospel of the grace of God, the remission or forgiveness of sins is BY THE SHED BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; Romans 3:25)

This is according to the MYSTERY revealed to Paul, not according to the NEW Covenant made with the house of Israel. The adding of water baptism for the forgiveness of sins in this Dispensation slanders the all -sufficiency of the blood of Christ.

Paul teaches that ALL my sins have been forgiven me on the basis of HIS sacrifice on the Cross. Acts 20:28 states that God purchased the Church of God WITH HIS OWN BLOOD. We are justified BY HIS BLOOD (Romans 5:9)

Water baptism can do NONE of this! My friend, don't be deceived by what water baptism advocates teach concerning salvation. They are WRONG in their presentation of the gospel message.

So, you see, there is a world of difference between salvation during the Dispensation of the LAW and salvation during the present Dispensation of GRACE.

Are people saved today by the Gospel of the Kingdom? The answer is NO! If the gospel of the Kingdom were the message for today , then it would NOT be necessary to reveal the MYSTERY to another apostle!

No matter how much you "believe"...you cannot MAKE GOD DO SOMETHING against HIS WILL:


You can't FORCE God to save people by a message that is NOT for today. This is NOT the dispensation of the NEW COVENANT nor the Dispensation of the KINGDOM.


The Bible States that this is the Dispensation of the GRACE of God (Eph. 3:2) and the Dispensation of the MYSTERY (Eph 3:9).


People are either being saved by the Gospel of the Grace of God or they arent being saved at ALL!

Whether you are a baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian or anything else, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT! Your future depends on it. 

[Oasis]

Thanks for that breakdown, Christine!

I just wish the Acts 2 believers would understand this!
All of them!
Right now!
....other than that, I don't ask for much.  LOL!

ybiC,
Kab

[Christine]

Thanks for that breakdown, Christine!

I just wish the Acts 2 believers would understand this!
All of them!
Right now!
....other than that, I don't ask for much.  LOL!

ybiC,
Kab

I know just how ya feel, buddy. One must FIRST have a willing mind. God appeals to the MIND, remember? "Be not CONFORMED....be ye TRANSFORMED...(How?) By the RENEWING of your MIND" 

Religion has a strong hold on folks. Face it, we all want to be accepted and agreeable with the crowd...and church is NO exception. With THIS message, however, even church goers will come against you and stand with other church goers (NOT even of their congregation) to rid themselves of YOU. Not a "persecution complex" here, but the plain, clear, facts. The "gang mentality" kicks in and they will do anything (short of putting YOU out of THEIR Misery) to get rid of you. Why? Because they would rather be "religious" than to know the truth. GASP

 This is human nature....and I have seen it happen time and again.


That word renewing is the same word as "to change"...one needs to CHANGE ones MIND (and guess what?) That is the meaning of "repent"...we are to change our minds about HOW God makes a man righteous.  (2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.)

 Israel was to "change their mind" about who the prophesied Messiah WAS and that He was there in their midst.

[Christine]

Thanks for that breakdown, Christine!

I just wish the Acts 2 believers would understand this!
All of them!
Right now!
....other than that, I don't ask for much.  LOL!

ybiC,
Kab

Hey Kab,

This is just a suggestion, but I know you would find the SERIES on "Problems with Acts 2 Theology" incredibly helpful.  It is listed as a heading here on the Forum. I have printed ALL of them out and have them in a folder for easy access and they have helped me tremendously in understanding just what the REAL problems are: ie, what THEY believe VS what the truth rightly divided teaches.

When you get a chance, give it a read.