Yahoo Question: What is YOUR reason for being "good?"

[Christine]

(continued part of question:)
Are we "good" because of the prospect of an eternal reward, or are we "good" because it's just the right thing to do?

Believers: If you're only good to get the prize, do you feel manipulated by a reward/punishment mechanism?



My answer from the scriptures:

No one is rewarded for being GOOD. The Bible tells us that "there is NONE good, no not one." So we can forget that concept from the get go.

The eternal reward we are promised is for BELIEVING what God says is TRUE, NOT for anything WE do or don't do. It pains me that this seems to be such a hard thing to grasp for those who profess to be christians.

We are given a pardon for sin BECAUSE of the actions of Jesus Christ on our behalf. God asks us to BELIEVE that He has already DONE all that is neccessary to secure our reconciliation to Him.

Our eternal reward is a product of the performance of Jesus Christ and not a result of anything WE do or don't do. That is why God calls it a GIFT. There is nothing WE did to earn it or to deserve it. God gives it to us by GRACE (Gods Riches At Christs Expense)

After we are saved, the "good" that people see in us is actually Christ living HIS life in and thru us. See Galatians 2:20

For more information on how you can exchange your NON goodness for His goodness...visit www.graceteacher.com

[Christine]

Another good question asked on Yahoo Answers. Normally, the questions asked are all fluff or making fun of Christianity, but every once in awhile a question gets asked that I just cant resist!   

[MaricoG]

No one is rewarded for being GOOD. The Bible tells us that "there is NONE good, no not one." So we can forget that concept from the get go.

I agree, that there is no one good...but in Christ we are good.  And the Bible does tell us that we must believe that the Lord is a rewarder....

Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So we must believe that the Lord will reward us for seeking Him.  Did I just answer my own question here...that God does not reward us for being good...but for seeking Him? 

Yet, we stand before Christ and have our works judged...some to be burned up, some to be rewarded...right?

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I have always wondered about this...what is the reward we will receive?  Is that the crowns?  That we give back to Jesus, or is it something else?  It certainly is not our salvation, but apart from our salvation....

[Christine]

No one is rewarded for being GOOD. The Bible tells us that "there is NONE good, no not one." So we can forget that concept from the get go.

I agree, that there is no one good...but in Christ we are good.  And the Bible does tell us that we must believe that the Lord is a rewarder....

Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So we must believe that the Lord will reward us for seeking Him.  Did I just answer my own question here...that God does not reward us for being good...but for seeking Him? 

Yet, we stand before Christ and have our works judged...some to be burned up, some to be rewarded...right?

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I have always wondered about this...what is the reward we will receive?  Is that the crowns?  That we give back to Jesus, or is it something else?  It certainly is not our salvation, but apart from our salvation....

Again, the answer I gave in Yahoo is directed to the question the poster asked, which was this:

Are we "good" because of the prospect of an eternal reward, or are we "good" because it's just the right thing to do?

Believers: If you're only good to get the prize, do you feel manipulated by a reward/punishment mechanism?

I answered in terms of an eternal reward and with the idea in mind that it was probably an UNBELIEVER who asked it.

You bring up some good questions though. I'm not awake yet this morning and maybe others would like to jump in on this one....

I'm so glad you joined us, Mari.

Huuugs


Addition:

The way I took this question from the asker was that if it wasn't for the reward, no one would do the right thing or follow God. Being a believer for a long long time, I can tell ya truthfully that if I found out the rules had changed , and that we weren't allowed into heaven or blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, I would still trust Him with my life.

"We love God BECAUSE He first loved us" and not because of any rewards promised for being exemplary people. What do you think?

[MaricoG]

"We love God BECAUSE He first loved us"

1Jo 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.

I so agree....but it does show that we are given something for doing nothing, and... that drew us to God! God gave us a FREE gift, the gift of salvation, just for sheer accepting of the gift, for believing in Him and what He did for us on the cross.  For believing we are rewarded with the free gift of salvation...so, I am not sure here.  God does reward us for obedience. 

 

[Christine]

"We love God BECAUSE He first loved us"

1Jo 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.

I so agree....but it does show that we are given something for doing nothing, and... that drew us to God! God gave us a FREE gift, the gift of salvation, just for sheer accepting of the gift, for believing in Him and what He did for us on the cross.  For believing we are rewarded with the free gift of salvation...so, I am not sure here.  God does reward us for obedience. 

 

Hi Mari,

I'm so glad you are here, girl! There is nothing more awesome than conversing with a new GRACE believer, truly. It helps me to remember how many questions I had, and how greatful i was when people stopped to break things down for me, and then gave me time to digest all the new material I was seeing for the first time. I had been a Southern Baptist for over 25 years when I first heard right division, and I can tell ya that I felt like I was starting ALL OVER. I was saved, but had NO idea how the whole thing fit together, and I had adopted UNTRUE and even superstitious beliefs that had NO basis in truth from the scriptures at all. Everytime I would come across one, I would say to myself , "Oh no, not yet ANOTHER thing I misunderstood, or took someone elses word for?"

I have to admit, it has been and continues to BE a wonderful adventure. You have a willing mind and a sweet spirit (I only had the willing mind part...LOL) and it makes you teachable and a joy to watch as you grow in Grace.

Now....wink...back to your comments above. You are absolutely correct in that we get something for simply believing. Here is what we need to examine in light of the scriptures to fine tune our thinking....(remember that we are "transformed by the renewing of our MINDS.)

 YOU SAID: For believing we are rewarded with the free gift of salvation...so, I am not sure here.  God does reward us for obedience.  


Believing God is not considered OBEDIENCE. This is a false concept created by "churchianity" which borrows from the "performance based salvation" of Israel's program.

Believing is a RESPONSE to what God has said He ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED on our behalf. It is not a work, its not an obedience factor (as it takes being given a CHOICE to either believe or NOT believe God ALONE.)

God has told us that "without faith it is impossible to please Him." Faith in what? In what HE has already revealed that He has DONE. He did it ALL. Faith says, "Thank you, that the work has already BEEN done."

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law (ie:obedience to it) , then Christ is dead in vain.

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 


Believing  is the only response God is looking for. He doesn't consider it a WORK of obedience, as "thru the works of the law shall NO man be justified in His sight."

Let this sink in and meditate on it...its alot to realize in one sitting and as you study you will see more and more the difference between GRACE and the law.  Much of what we have been taught has , unfortunately , been transferred over from Gods program with Israel where they WERE on a "performance based system". That changed when Christ gave new information to Paul and began the dispensation of GRACE.

Any questions so far? Lemme know if I'm moving too fast...as I KNOW there will be issues and belief systems that will take time to resolve themselves in your mind. It won't be an instantaneous thing, but one where you might even resist...thats NORMAL.  You are doing very well in seeing the areas where you need to change YOUR Mind...this is called a "metanoia" moment, and all grace believers have em.

If you need further explanation, all you have to do is let me know. How's that? 

[Christine]

Here is my response to the second half of your question:

Yet, we stand before Christ and have our works judged...some to be burned up, some to be rewarded...right?

That is correct.

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I have always wondered about this...what is the reward we will receive?  Is that the crowns?  That we give back to Jesus, or is it something else?  It certainly is not our salvation, but apart from our salvation....

Yes, our works will be rewarded. First we must determine what the works ARE that will be judged.  Stick with me...as comparing scripture WITH scripture is how we find our answers!    

Scripture tells us:

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This tells me that it is God who prepared the "good works" that we walk in BEFORE we even knew what they would BE. Can you see the divine design here of having ALL the bases covered from begininng to end. It is HIS idea, His plan, and He even orchestrates those things which we will do,  beforehand.


1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Here we are getting closer to the real issue. God has made us "stewards" of something. The scripture says that we are stewards of the mysteries of God. There were mysteries in the OT to be sure, but WE know that this is speaking of "the preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET since the world began..." Rom. 16:25

How do we know this? Because of the address of the information. This is in Paul's epistles, and is therefore referring to the mystery information revealed ONLY to Paul for we who are the Body today.

So, we are safe in surmising that it is inTHIS specific mystery material that God is looking for us to exhibit "faithfulness."

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my   (ie: PAUL'S) gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

The phrase "gospel of Christ" is used ONLY by Paul.   It is clear that we will be rewarded for how we maintained the integrity of the gospel given to Paul. What the specific rewards will be, I don't know. There are crowns given for believing certain things...but for THIS, I don't see anything specific told us as to what the reward will be. "Gods approval" is what I am surmising according to 2 Tim. 2:15 which says "STUDY to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

What do you think? Does this make sense? By talking these things over and comparing verses, the bible says that "iron sharpens iron", and we both learn as we are taught of HIM. Isn't that neat?

[MaricoG]

I'm so glad you are here, girl! There is nothing more awesome than conversing with a new GRACE believer, truly. It helps me to remember how many questions I had, and how greatful i was when people stopped to break things down for me, and then gave me time to digest all the new material I was seeing for the first time. I had been a Southern Baptist for over 25 years when I first heard right division, and I can tell ya that I felt like I was starting ALL OVER. I was saved, but had NO idea how the whole thing fit together, and I had adopted UNTRUE and even superstitious beliefs that had NO basis in truth from the scriptures at all. Everytime I would come across one, I would say to myself , "Oh no, not yet ANOTHER thing I misunderstood, or took someone elses word for?"

You surely do understand! Thank you, and thank you so much for your graciousness in understanding! I must tell you...you and Pastor Kurth are teaching me something I personally want to aquire...and that is the graceousness of your way in talking with and understanding people.  I think my Catholic background still limits me...as I tend toward legalism, black and white, and sometimes being irritable with others, rather than understanding, because I lack this grace.  Not for long though, as I know the Lord is working strongly in me right now. 

I will begin to keep you in prayer, as I do with Pastor Kurth...and ask that if you remember me in your prayers, it will be that I grow in grace, that the Lord will shower me with His grace, AND that I will let it overflow to others all around me.  I have one other friend in my life that is like you two, and I hope she will come here to meet you and chat too.  She is reading some of the literature, but I am not sure she is getting it, because of researching so many sites against dispensationalism...naming it as "ultra" and "hyper"...and frankly the sites she has sent me...they REALLY are!  So, I am keeping her in prayer and hoping...regardless though, she is a friend who will not go away, but we will agree to disagree.  I thank God for her always.

Trust me...I will have a lot of questions. LOL  I see that obedience is a work, and a response of believing is not.  There is a lot for me to unlearn as well as learn, and appropriate. 

[Christine]

I'm so glad you are here, girl! There is nothing more awesome than conversing with a new GRACE believer, truly. It helps me to remember how many questions I had, and how greatful i was when people stopped to break things down for me, and then gave me time to digest all the new material I was seeing for the first time. I had been a Southern Baptist for over 25 years when I first heard right division, and I can tell ya that I felt like I was starting ALL OVER. I was saved, but had NO idea how the whole thing fit together, and I had adopted UNTRUE and even superstitious beliefs that had NO basis in truth from the scriptures at all. Everytime I would come across one, I would say to myself , "Oh no, not yet ANOTHER thing I misunderstood, or took someone elses word for?"

You surely do understand! Thank you, and thank you so much for your graciousness in understanding! I must tell you...you and Pastor Kurth are teaching me something I personally want to aquire...and that is the graceousness of your way in talking with and understanding people.  I think my Catholic background still limits me...as I tend toward legalism, black and white, and sometimes being irritable with others, rather than understanding, because I lack this grace.  Not for long though, as I know the Lord is working strongly in me right now. 

I will begin to keep you in prayer, as I do with Pastor Kurth...and ask that if you remember me in your prayers, it will be that I grow in grace, that the Lord will shower me with His grace, AND that I will let it overflow to others all around me.  I have one other friend in my life that is like you two, and I hope she will come here to meet you and chat too.  She is reading some of the literature, but I am not sure she is getting it, because of researching so many sites against dispensationalism...naming it as "ultra" and "hyper"...and frankly the sites she has sent me...they REALLY are!  So, I am keeping her in prayer and hoping...regardless though, she is a friend who will not go away, but we will agree to disagree.  I thank God for her always.

Trust me...I will have a lot of questions. LOL  I see that obedience is a work, and a response of believing is not.  There is a lot for me to unlearn as well as learn, and appropriate. 

No No NO.....your question had merit, and I just didn't get a chance to go into it all. We are promised rewards AFTER believing...so there is an "obedience of THE faith" to be considered.( Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to THE faith among all nations, for his name)

We ARE running a race, but NOT a competition and there IS a prize (Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.)

Obedience for salvation is a work...and is forbidden. Obedience to that which God has given us as OUR instructions as members of the Body of Christ  (AFTER we have trusted in His finished work) ARE given with rewards promised. Those rewards will come in the form of "JOB ASSIGNMENTS" in our heavenly positions in Christ. Those who were "faithful" with the mysteries of God as given to Paul will be rewarded with more responsible job positions when we are assigned our Heavenly duties.

We can further study this later on...once you have assimilated the foundational issues of BELIEVING not being a WORK but a response to GODS work on our behalf. You will find it edifying and awesome, I promise you. Right now, you are taking one step at a time and doing a wonderful job. Learning how to slough off legalism and think as God thinks is a lifelong goal and worthy of our focus...and I'm thrilled that you are coming along so nicely.

Keep sharing with your friend...invite her here....she can ask questions with no fear of being judged or made fun of...and we will welcome her as we did you.

I am putting together your package to mail tomorrow...we have to go get our taxes done today, and it is also our anniversary, so we will be going out to lunch to celebrate....so I ran out of time today.

I DO understand the process of growing in GRACE and will be praying for God to continue to enlighten you as you come to Him with an expectant heart. He has never let me down...and I know He is thrilled that you have come to this point in your life. I know I AM.

'doin a happy dance around the room cuz Mari is learning about GRACE...yeeeee haw'

[MaricoG]

1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

The phrase "gospel of Christ" is used ONLY by Paul.   It is clear that we will be rewarded for how we maintained the integrity of the gospel given to Paul. What the specific rewards will be, I don't know. There are crowns given for believing certain things...but for THIS, I don't see anything specific told us as to what the reward will be. "Gods approval" is what I am surmising according to 2 Tim. 2:15 which says "STUDY to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

Wow.  That is enough for me!

[MaricoG]

We ARE running a race, but NOT a competition and there IS a prize (Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.)

Obedience for salvation is a work...and is forbidden. Obedience to that which God has given us as OUR instructions as members of the Body of Christ  (AFTER we have trusted in His finished work) ARE given with rewards promised. Those rewards will come in the form of "JOB ASSIGNMENTS" in our heavenly positions in Christ. Those who were "faithful" with the mysteries of God as given to Paul will be rewarded with more responsible job positions when we are assigned our Heavenly duties.

I understand that perfectly.

We can further study this later on...once you have assimilated the foundational issues of BELIEVING not being a WORK but a response to GODS work on our behalf. You will find it edifying and awesome, I promise you. Right now, you are taking one step at a time and doing a wonderful job. Learning how to slough off legalism and think as God thinks is a lifelong goal and worthy of our focus...and I'm thrilled that you are coming along so nicely.

Thank you for the encouragement...I see such kindness and latitude in the grace movement.

Keep sharing with your friend...invite her here....she can ask questions with no fear of being judged or made fun of...and we will welcome her as we did you.

I am going to do that right now!

I am putting together your package to mail tomorrow...we have to go get our taxes done today, and it is also our anniversary, so we will be going out to lunch to celebrate....so I ran out of time today.

Have fun...I am getting tired and have a lot more to do before I can lay down...

I DO understand the process of growing in GRACE and will be praying for God to continue to enlighten you as you come to Him with an expectant heart. He has never let me down...and I know He is thrilled that you have come to this point in your life. I know I AM.

'doin a happy dance around the room cuz Mari is learning about GRACE...yeeeee haw'

I can see you are another funny person...I keep meeting great and funny people in Grace.