Born Again or Baptized into the Body

[LookingUp]

Can someone explain the difference between being born again and being baptized into the Body of Christ?

Let me add:  Are we ALL born again (even those who were in Abraham's bosom before the cross)?  But only a select number are baptized into the Body (during this age of grace)?

[MaricoG]

Hi LookingUP!

I am looking up too!

Those are GREAT questions, and I want to take a stab at the answer, because I am learning.   

I don't think there is any difference between being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, because I believe they both happen instanteously at the same moment...when we believe 1Cor 15:1-4.

I don't think anyone who was in the bosom of Abraham were born again....I think they are waiting for an earthly kingdom, and will have an earthly kingdom.  And...Jews today who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation today, are part of the Body of Christ just like we are. 

Now...let's see how I did when Christine comes back...I will admit that I am on pain medication... so  don't run out anywhere with this information!  LOL 

[ecorpe]

Hi LookingUP!

I am looking up too!

Those are GREAT questions, and I want to take a stab at the answer, because I am learning.  

I don't think there is any difference between being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, because I believe they both happen instanteously at the same moment...when we believe 1Cor 15:1-4.

I don't think anyone who was in the bosom of Abraham were born again....I think they are waiting for an earthly kingdom, and will have an earthly kingdom.  And...Jews today who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation today, are part of the Body of Christ just like we are. 

Now...let's see how I did when Christine comes back...I will admit that I am on pain medication... so  don't run out anywhere with this information!  LOL 

Not bad for a first time learner. You did a good job in answering her question. Like you, I am still learning all the ins and outs but, I must admit that it has been a wonderful learning experience. My biggest problem is remembering where all the correct answers are. In time I hope to have that under control too.

Grace to you and welcome to both of you ladies to this forum.

[LookingUp]

Hi LookingUP!

I am looking up too!

Those are GREAT questions, and I want to take a stab at the answer, because I am learning.   

I don't think there is any difference between being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, because I believe they both happen instanteously at the same moment...when we believe 1Cor 15:1-4.

I don't think anyone who was in the bosom of Abraham were born again....I think they are waiting for an earthly kingdom, and will have an earthly kingdom.  And...Jews today who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation today, are part of the Body of Christ just like we are. 

Now...let's see how I did when Christine comes back...I will admit that I am on pain medication... so  don't run out anywhere with this information!  LOL 

Well, there has got to be some differences… those in the tribulation will be born again (right?) and those in the MK (Mil. Kingdom) will be born again, but they will not be baptized into the Body of Christ.  The Body will be taken up before these things take place.

Here are the verses re: born again…
 
Joh 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born again he cannot * see the kingdom of God."

Joh 3:7
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

1Pe 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Pe 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable , that is, through the living and enduring word of God.


Here are some verses re: the Body…

Ro 12:5
so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually * members one of another.

1Co 10:17
Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread. 

1Co 12:12
For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

1Co 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1Co 12:14
For the body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:18
But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.

Eph 2:16
and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity .

Eph 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

Col 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Col 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

[LookingUp]

Hi LookingUP!

I am looking up too!

Those are GREAT questions, and I want to take a stab at the answer, because I am learning.  

I don't think there is any difference between being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, because I believe they both happen instanteously at the same moment...when we believe 1Cor 15:1-4.

I don't think anyone who was in the bosom of Abraham were born again....I think they are waiting for an earthly kingdom, and will have an earthly kingdom.  And...Jews today who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation today, are part of the Body of Christ just like we are. 

Now...let's see how I did when Christine comes back...I will admit that I am on pain medication... so  don't run out anywhere with this information!  LOL 

Not bad for a first time learner. You did a good job in answering her question. Like you, I am still learning all the ins and outs but, I must admit that it has been a wonderful learning experience. My biggest problem is remembering where all the correct answers are. In time I hope to have that under control too.

Grace to you and welcome to both of you ladies to this forum.

Thank you for the warm welcome. 

[LookingUp]

Jesus said one must be born again (born of water and of spirit - John 3:5) to see and to enter the kingdom of God.  Was Jesus referring to the heavenly governed kingdom on earth (i.e. the one He was proclaiming was at hand)?

Why doesn't Paul mention being born again if this is something for the Body?  I'm not saying we are not born again... I'm just wondering.

Regarding the saints in Ab's Bosom - if they are not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus.  How will Isaac, Jacob, etc. recline at the table in the kingdom if they are not born again?

[Christine]

Jesus said one must be born again (born of water and of spirit - John 3:5) to see and to enter the kingdom of God.  Was Jesus referring to the heavenly governed kingdom on earth (i.e. the one He was proclaiming was at hand)?

Why doesn't Paul mention being born again if this is something for the Body?  I'm not saying we are not born again... I'm just wondering.

Regarding the saints in Ab's Bosom - if they are not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus.  How will Isaac, Jacob, etc. recline at the table in the kingdom if they are not born again?

You ask a very insightful question and one that I don't usually enter into with NEW grace believers, but that does have a simple answer.

You are very perceptive in seeing that the "born again" issue is brought up ONLY with those who are of the Nation Israel, and that Paul doesn't use the phrase at all. Interesting isn't it??? There is a reason for this.

In times PAST and ages to COME, the NATION of Israel is referred to as "Gods FIRSTBORN." See Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Thus, only the Nation Israel is exhorted to be BORN AGAIN , as THEY are Gods firstborn to begin with.

WE are made into a New CREATION, and not "born again". The address of the conversation should also tell us to whom this was addressed.

Does this help?

[Christine]

Jesus said one must be born again (born of water and of spirit - John 3:5) to see and to enter the kingdom of God.  Was Jesus referring to the heavenly governed kingdom on earth (i.e. the one He was proclaiming was at hand)?

Yes. This directive was given ONLY to the Kingdom saints (ie: Jews) and they would understand it as they knew that they were "Gods firstborn." National Israel is being addressed here. How do we know this? Because of where it is found. The body of Christ was still a MYSTERY here. Judaism was the ONLY game in town.

Why doesn't Paul mention being born again if this is something for the Body?  I'm not saying we are not born again... I'm just wondering.

Paul doesn't mention it because we are made members of a NEW CREATION, which IS none other than the Body of Christ. We actually AREN'T born again, if the truth be known!

Regarding the saints in Ab's Bosom - if they are not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus.  How will Isaac, Jacob, etc. recline at the table in the kingdom if they are not born again?

Thats exactly correct. This is a requirement for all those who are in the Kingdom program, as this was addressed to the NATION as Gods firstborn.
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn

You also asked this in a previous post:

Well, there has got to be some differences… those in the tribulation will be born again (right?) and those in the MK (Mil. Kingdom) will be born again, but they will not be baptized into the Body of Christ.  The Body will be taken up before these things take place.

That is correct. Anyone involved in Gods program with Israel will be born again, but NOT made a member of the church the Body of Christ. They are IN Christ, but NOT in the BODY of Christ. Two different programs...two different destinations...same Lord. One saved under the earthly ministry of Christ, and the one saved under Christ RISEN.

Good observation.

Very astute question...I'm glad you asked it!

[LookingUp]

Jesus said one must be born again (born of water and of spirit - John 3:5) to see and to enter the kingdom of God.  Was Jesus referring to the heavenly governed kingdom on earth (i.e. the one He was proclaiming was at hand)?

Why doesn't Paul mention being born again if this is something for the Body?  I'm not saying we are not born again... I'm just wondering.

Regarding the saints in Ab's Bosom - if they are not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus.  How will Isaac, Jacob, etc. recline at the table in the kingdom if they are not born again?

You ask a very insightful question and one that I don't usually enter into with NEW grace believers, but that does have a simple answer.

You are very perceptive in seeing that the "born again" issue is brought up ONLY with those who are of the Nation Israel, and that Paul doesn't use the phrase at all. Interesting isn't it??? There is a reason for this.

In times PAST and ages to COME, the NATION of Israel is referred to as "Gods FIRSTBORN." See Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Thus, only the Nation Israel is exhorted to be BORN AGAIN , as THEY are Gods firstborn to begin with.

WE are made into a New CREATION, and not "born again". The address of the conversation should also tell us to whom this was addressed.

Does this help?

Yes.  That's wonderful.  And if you have any further scripture to support this, I would love to add it to my collection.  Do you have any insight on those in Ab's Bosom?

More to consider…

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

“…He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16).
“…this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit” (John 1:33).
“…you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:5).

The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

“…all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death” (Rom. 6:3).

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body…” (1 Cor. 12:13).

“For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ” (Gal. 3:27).

So, we in the Body of Christ are not born again?  If I am to be quite literal, wouldn't that mean that we will not see/enter the kingdom of God?  Or is the Body exempt from being born again since we are a new creature in Christ and part of His Body?  To continue on this line of thinking, if we are the Body of Christ, will we not reign with Him in His earthly kingdom in some manner?  The Head and the Body will always be together, yes?  Is it that we will reign from heavenly places & not necessarily down on the heavenly governed earthly kingdom (MK)?

Don't be shy because I'm "new"... I will tell you when you've gone over my head.  But sometimes I can jump pretty high (well, at least I try). 

[LookingUp]

Jesus said one must be born again (born of water and of spirit - John 3:5) to see and to enter the kingdom of God.  Was Jesus referring to the heavenly governed kingdom on earth (i.e. the one He was proclaiming was at hand)?

Yes. This directive was given ONLY to the Kingdom saints (ie: Jews) and they would understand it as they knew that they were "Gods firstborn." National Israel is being addressed here. How do we know this? Because of where it is found. The body of Christ was still a MYSTERY here. Judaism was the ONLY game in town.

Why doesn't Paul mention being born again if this is something for the Body?  I'm not saying we are not born again... I'm just wondering.

Paul doesn't mention it because we are made members of a NEW CREATION, which IS none other than the Body of Christ. We actually AREN'T born again, if the truth be known!

Regarding the saints in Ab's Bosom - if they are not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of God according to the words of Jesus.  How will Isaac, Jacob, etc. recline at the table in the kingdom if they are not born again?

Thats exactly correct. This is a requirement for all those who are in the Kingdom program, as this was addressed to the NATION as Gods firstborn.
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn

You also asked this in a previous post:

Well, there has got to be some differences… those in the tribulation will be born again (right?) and those in the MK (Mil. Kingdom) will be born again, but they will not be baptized into the Body of Christ.  The Body will be taken up before these things take place.

That is correct. Anyone involved in Gods program with Israel will be born again, but NOT made a member of the church the Body of Christ. They are IN Christ, but NOT in the BODY of Christ. Two different programs...two different destinations...same Lord. One saved under the earthly ministry of Christ, and the one saved under Christ RISEN.

Good observation.

Very astute question...I'm glad you asked it!

Whoops... I see you are one step ahead of me.  I posted the above post before I saw this one from you.  Oh well!  I am so excited I am finally getting some of my questions answered/confirmed!  Yippee!  Maybe the things I have been noticing in scripture lately are not so crazy afterall. 

[Christine]

Yes.  That's wonderful.  And if you have any further scripture to support this, I would love to add it to my collection.  Do you have any insight on those in Ab's Bosom?

Not really. Abraham only relates to us with regard to FAITH being the operating factor in his relationship with God. You can do a study on it, but I would suggest focusing your energies on OUR program in this dispensation of GRACE so that you become "ESTABLISHED..."...then venture off into these areas later. It is your decision, however.  

More to consider…

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. (in His ministry ON THE EARTH and TO the NATION ISRAEL)

“…He will baptize you (ie: meaning the KINGDOM believers who are Jews in times PAST) with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16).
“…this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit” (John 1:33).

“…you  (identified from the address as JEWS in times PAST) will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:5).

The Holy Spirit baptizes us (Us being those in this present age of GRACE) into Christ.

“…all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death” (Rom. 6:3).

“For by one Spirit we (identified by the address as BODY saints and NOT Kingdom saints) were all baptized into one body…” (1 Cor. 12:13).

“For all of you (you being those who are believing PAULS gospel and not Peters) who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ” (Gal. 3:27).

So, we in the Body of Christ are not born again?  If I am to be quite literal, wouldn't that mean that we will not see/enter the kingdom of God?  Or is the Body exempt from being born again since we are a new creature in Christ and part of His Body?  To continue on this line of thinking, if we are the Body of Christ, will we not reign with Him in His earthly kingdom in some manner?  The Head and the Body will always be together, yes?  Is it that we will reign from heavenly places & not necessarily down on the heavenly governed earthly kingdom (MK)?

That is correct. We do not have a part in the Kingdom program of heaven on EARTH. We are part of Gods overall Kingdom, but in a different destination. The born again directive, again , was given ONLY to the Nation Israel and never given to the church which is His Body.  

No, we will not be reigning with Him in His earthly Kingdom at ALL. The earthly promises were made to His earthly people. THEY were the only ones given earthly promises, with earthly real estate, with a literal 12 thrones for twelve apostles, to rule over a literal 12 tribes of ISRAEL.

God has TWO realms that He has created, both of which have a governmental structure. We will reign from heavenly places (and over angels) while Israel will rule on the EARTH. This is how God WILL re establish His rightful rule in both realms that He has created.

A good book that lays all this out from the very beginning in a wonderfully easy to read manner is "Satan and His plan of Evil" by Keith Blades. It can be purchased thru www.enjoythebible.com

I found it to be a great help in my understanding of the BIG PICTURE from Gods standpoint.

I hope this helps.

[LookingUp]

...That is correct. Anyone involved in Gods program with Israel will be born again, but NOT made a member of the church the Body of Christ. They are IN Christ, but NOT in the BODY of Christ. Two different programs...two different destinations...same Lord. One saved under the earthly ministry of Christ, and the one saved under Christ RISEN.

Good observation.

Very astute question...I'm glad you asked it!

I have thought of another question related to this.  Paul says that anyone who is in Christ is a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17).  Doesn't this mean that Peter and the 11 were new creatures since they too were in Christ?

Is baptism into the Body the same act that makes one a new creature in Christ?  If so, what scripture supports this most obviously?

[Christine]

I have thought of another question related to this.  Paul says that anyone who is in Christ is a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17).  Doesn't this mean that Peter and the 11 were new creatures since they too were in Christ?

Is baptism into the Body the same act that makes one a new creature in Christ?  If so, what scripture supports this most obviously?

Keep in mind that there are two programs here. Paul addresses those who have believed HIS gospel, and they are the ones who are members of the NEW CREATION, which is the "BODY OF CHRIST." The BODY truths are singularly distinct to Pauls gospel ONLY.

The 12 were "in CHRIST" but NOT In the BODY. They believed in Christs earthly ministry and message, but were NOT members of THE BODY , as the BODY TRUTHS are distinct to Pauls teachings. The BODY didn't even exist as an entity until AFTER Pauls salvation.

Here is what God intends to do with both groups at some future time; this is His goal:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

There will be different destinations to both groups who are IN CHRIST.

Peter and the 12 were IN CHRIST redemptively, but were still waiting for the times of refreshing as well as for their promised redemption. WE have our redemption NOW.

The NEW CREATURE has nothing to do with Peter and the KINGDOM saints. That is distinctly PAULINE.

Good question. The scriptures are the same that you have been using, but simply acknowledging two groups with two distinct destinations and promises.

I forgot to answer your last question. YES, the baptism by the HOLY SPIRIT INTO the Body of Christ IS what makes us a NEW CREATION. That is why Peter and the gang were IN CHRIST redemptively, but NOT in the BODY. They are not baptized BY the HOLY Spirit, but by Christ WITH the Holy Spirit. Two different things going on here. The H.S. comes UPON them, but we are INDWELT and made into something we were NOT before...members of a BODY.


Does this help?

[MaricoG]

Thank you ecorpe, for the welcome and encouragement!  I am as excited as when I was first saved! I hope to make this place my second home! 

[MaricoG]

Two different things going on here. The H.S. comes UPON them, but we are INDWELT and made into something we were NOT before...members of a BODY.

That is an incredible statement, and again I had a sort of "lightbulb" moment.     The sort of is this...the Holy Spirit came upon the 12 at Pentecost.  Did He come and go then too....such as with Saul?