Problem 19 - The Body of Christ will come back with Christ at the Second Coming

[Christine]

PROBLEM NO. 19 --THE BELIEF THAT THE CHURCH, THE BODY OF CHRIST, WILL COME
BACK WITH CHRIST AT THE SECOND COMING IN ORDER TO REIGN AND LIVE WITH HIM ON EARTH

On pages 1310-1311 of the New Scofield Bible in the New King James Version, is the teaching that the Church will return with Christ at His Second Coming. Finis J. Dake teaches the same thing in his books 'God's Plan For Man,' page 947, and in 'Dake's Annotated Reference Bible,' page 227, column B of the New Testament.

They refer to the word 'saints' in Zech. 14:5 and in Jude 14 to be saved people, including the Church.

 

THE TRUTH

Just 'who' or 'what' will come back with Christ at His Second Advent? Is it both 'angels' and 'saved people,' or just 'saved people,' or just 'angels?'

It is very possible that the 'saints' referred to in these 2 verses are angels. Both the Hebrew and the Greek words for 'saint' means 'holy' or 'holy one' when referring to people and to angels. So we must find the answer somewhere else.

There are 2 verses where it clearly states that 'angels' are coming back WITH Christ:

Matthew 25:31, "when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the Throne of His glory."

2 Thess. 1:7, "and to give you who are troubled rest with us; when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels."

Please notice that Matthew mentioned 'holy' angels. These are the angels that refused to follow Lucifer (the Devil) when he brought sin into God's universe (Isaiah 14:12-15). The fallen angels who belong to the Devil are not in view here. The verse in 2 Thessalonians is in the context of the Second Coming, the only time Paul went into detail about it. (The 'when' in 2 Thess. 1:7 should begin a new paragraph that includes verses 8,9, and ends with 'believe' in verse 10. Sometimes the King James translators used parenthesis for sections like this).

The book of Revelation gives a different description of those who come back with the Lord: "And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses" (Rev. 19:14). This 'army' is also mentioned in verse 19 as 'His army.' Are the 'armies' made up of people or angels?

Luke 2:13 tells us what the 'army' is: "And suddenly there was with the angel [the angel of the Lord in verse 9] a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying." This verse is in the context of the angelic announcement of Jesus' birth. This heavenly host praises God and gives Him the glory for this important event.

In the two verses in Revelation the heavenly angels are referred to as an 'army' of God. The Greek word in Rev. 19:14 and 19:19 for 'armies' and 'army, is STRATEUMA, a neuter noun; the Greek word in Luke 2:13 for 'host' is STRATIA, a feminine noun. The only difference between the two words is the ending. The basic meaning of both words is 'army,' then, 'a band of soldiers.' There is a class of angels which can be designated as an 'army' - a heavenly army that is ready to come with Christ at His Second Coming.

Our Lord referred to this class of angels during His earthly ministry. He mentioned them in Matt. 26:53, "Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?" A Roman 'legion' consisted of between 3000 and 6000 men, so Jesus was speaking of about 50,000 angels that would be ready to defend Him if needed.

The overwhelming testimony of Scripture is that angels come with the Lord at His Second Coming instead of saved people. The Old Testament saints who go into the Millennium will be RESURRECTED rather than coming back with Christ (Rev. 20:4-5). Everyone will be accounted for by God.

The main reason why Acts 2 brethren want to include the Body of Christ with the angels at the Second Advent is because they believe the Body of Christ is going to reign on earth with Christ.. They basically imply in their teaching that the Millennium is also the hope of the Church. After all, the Church is supposed to be the Bride of Christ (Rev. 19:7-10), and the Bride will rule with the Bridegroom. This so-called 'Bride' aspect of the Church is very strong in their teaching, and so the Church MUST come back at the Second Coming.

There are two answers to this teaching:

1. There are two types of resurrection bodies:

a. A resurrection body that looks like a normal human body. Our Lord's resurrection body was like this for 40 days. The twomen on the road to Emmaus did not see any outward difference in His body (Luke 24:13-32), and for 40 days the Twelve Disciples behaved the same way. This is the type of resurrection body that will be manifested in the Millennium by the old Testament believers and the Twelve Apostles.

b. A resurrection body of glory that is promised to the members of the Body
of Christ that will be fit for the Fourth Dimension (Phil. 3:21). Some day we are going to be like Him with a body of glory thatHe now has. The glory of God will be manifested in the Church throughout all eternity in the Fourth Dimension. The Lord will be the only one in the Millennium with a body of glory (if His glory is not veiled like it was during His earthly ministry). Jesus is called 'the Lord of glory' in 1 Cor. 2:8. Compare James 2:1.

2. Our inheritance is spiritual, not material or physical. It is located in the heavenlies of the Fourth Dimension, not on earth. This is one of the subjects treated in the prison epistles of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians (Eph. 1:14,18; 2:6; Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:24).

The future that God has planned for the Body of Christ is ' far greater than ruling on earth for 1000 years. And besides, who would want to cane back to an earth where sin will still be manifested? Although Satan will be imprisoned and the curse will be lifted, people will still have an unregenerate nature, the old Adamic nature that hates God. Christ as Messiah will have to rule with a rod of iron (Psalm 2:9), and this means punishment and death. When Satan is released for a short time after the 1000 years, he will be able to attract a great multitude of unsaved people - Gog and Magog - in order to war against God and His people (Rev. 20:7-10).

No, I don't want to come back in a body of glory to live on an earth filled with unsaved people and death. A body of glory is fitted for heaven itself, and would be out of place in the Kingdom Age, except for the Lord's glorified body, of course. I will be content with the glory and perfect conditions that exist in the presence of God in the Fourth Dimension. Amen?

The Millennium should have no attraction for the one who has a resurrection body of glory. We are going to reign with Him inthe Fourth Dimension, but not on earth (2 Tim. 2:12; 1 Cor. 6:3).

By Robert C. Brock

[Christine]

I believe we will come back with the lord. 

Hi leleduke. Nice to have you here. As you know, if what we "believe" doesn't have its basis in what the Lord says will happen, then we must "change our mind" (this is the real description of the word "repent.)


Let us look at scripture that tells US, we who are the Body of Christ, where our final destination will be.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If you are in a "right dividing" church then your pastor will help you understand that we have a different destination than those who have an earthly inheritance.

 God has TWO realms which He created. HEAVEN and EARTH. There are two separate groups of people that He deals with in the scriptures who will inhabit those realms. Your Bible is a story about Gods plans and purposes to re establish His rightful rule and reign in BOTH of those realms.

"Churchianity" will tell you that we will come back to the earth with the Lord, however, scripture tells a different story when we study it out. That is the reason for rightly dividing the Word of truth. To keep separate the two plans God has: One for heaven and one for the earth.

Ephesians 1
"10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

Isn't this a wonderful truth? It describes to us Gods ultimate goal. To gather together IN ONE all things in Christ. What it doesn't say is that we who are the Body of Christ and those who are His earthly people, will live in ONE place. We will all be IN HIM, but with different destinations. Israel's inheritance was that of an EARTHLY KINGDOM.

Our inheritance is a HEAVENLY one. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Revelation 21,


"1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."


God the Father himself is coming to the Earth. If we have an eternal heavenly inheritance then we will be there all by our lonesome.

These verses have to do with the Nation Israel and God's plan with THEM. How do I know?  Because of the way the Bible is laid out, and the address of the information given. Hebrews thru Revelation are speaking to ISRAEL in ages to COME, and we who are the church the Body of Christ will already be GONE to meet our Lord in the AIR.

Here , in these passages, God is speaking of His resuming His plan and purposes with Israel. There WILL be a new heaven and a new earth...but count them...TWO separate destinations and NOT ONE.

YOUR destination will not be on the earth, but YOU and I will rule in the heavens over angels.1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Ask your pastor about this. We aren't trying to make you feel bad, or to embarrass you, but to encourage you to study so that you understand what things have been promised to YOU, and what things have not. When we discuss together, as fellow believers, what the scripture actually DOES teach us according to 2 Tim 2:15, then we are ALL edified.

I'm so glad you posted this issue so that we can all learn and grow in GRACE.

Tell us more about yourself so we can get to know you. I love meeting "family members" and finding out how God led them to Grace.

 

[Christine]

You are very welcome....Im always glad to help.

We have free study materials available thru this ministry that will help you in your understanding of Right Division. If you would like me to send you a packet, just let me know. Its really good resource material.

[Christine]

Hey Leleduke,

I removed the discussion from the other board. No use having it in both places.

Where I disagree with those who think we will come back to earth with Jesus  is that God created TWO realms. If His intent is to bring us all together in ONE place, then He would not have made such a production out of keeping the two programs SEPARATE. If all of us will be gathered in ONE PLACE, and that place is the earth, then what about Heaven? Will it just sit empty for eternity? Scripture simply doesnt support it. Now can we go from heaven to the earth and "visit"...why not? But our main position and calling is a heavenly one and we will be ruling over angels. There is an entire hierarchy and governmental structure in both realms and I just don't see we, the members of the Body of Christ being promised ANY earthly real estate. That was to the Jew ALONE.  On the other hand, I also don't see an scriptural support for Gods earthly people ever coming to heaven. They were never promised that territory. Theirs was an EARTHLY inheritance and they KNEW it! It is just so much more simple when we just let the scriptures speak for themselves. All else is pure speculation at best.

OUR Bible is Gods story of how He WILL re establish His reign and rule in BOTH REALMS of governmental structure which He has created. One wont be left vacant, so that we can all dwell together. The scripture says He will gather all things unto Himself in Christ. The ONENESS will not be in territory, but in SPIRIT...all under the ONE Lord, but two SEPARATE destinations. To stay true to Pauls revelation of the Mystery and to Gods own Word about TWO realms, we need to stay true to what scripture SAYS.

Its not anything to divide over, but to stay consistent to right division and its purpose to keep separate the two programs but realize they are under ONE Lord, is really what the issue IS.

[NewDawn]

This is a good teaching.  In the church I came from, the head Bishop, Dr. Bill Hamon always said that we would be "ruling" and "reigning" with Christ Jesus. 

I always thought about what he said and wondered what we would be rulling and reigning?? 

[Oasis]

I just got through discussing this with Jerry Pourcy and Pastor Ricky Kurth.  I agree with Pastor Kurth that our eternal inheritance is Heavenly and that angels will come back with Christ at His second coming.  Jerry diagrees with both of those positions.  It made for interesting discussion. 

One answer that I thought of concerning the issue of how we can be spend eternity with the Lord if we're not coming back with him at His second coming is to remember that the Lord is Omnipresent.  The fact that He can be in more than one place at one time explains our eternal heavenly inheritance and supports the conviction that it is angels that are coming back with the Lord.

ybiC,
Kab 

[Christine]

Hey Kab,

Something I have found to be an interesting discussion point is: If the Body Saints all leave heaven to come back to the earth with Christ, then what was Gods point in having a twofold ministry in re establishing His rightful rule in both HEAVEN and EARTH, if it is only to leave heaven EMPTY?

You see, people do NOT understand that BOTH realms which God created have been compromised and overtaken. Gods PLAN is to re establish His rule and reign in BOTH realms. You are absolutely correct in your focus on God being OMNIPRESENT in both realms too.

Satan and His plan of Evil by Keith Blades is an EXCELLENT book to have in your library for a detailed look at this twofold plan and where it began, as well as where it will end. I highly recommend it.  CR Stam has also written a good book entitled "The twofold Plan of God."

Good to have you back, Kab.

P.S. While I have alot of respect for both men ...I do not agree with some of their conclusions biblically, and that goes especially for JPourcy. Glad you are seeing some of the discrepancies in his conclusions.

[Oasis]

Though I have great respect for Les Feldick, this is the only thing I disagree with him on.  He believes saints will come back with Christ, but I do agree with him that when the New Heaven and New Earth are formed we will be together under Christ, but have separate eternal inheritances.  I've found I agree and disagree with different Grace Teachers on various issues, but for the most part, still enjoy fellowship and study with most of them.  While I disagree with Jerry Pourcy on several things(and have since I first met him), he is always gracious and easy to talk to.  I haven't run into any disagreement with Pastor Kurth...except possibly his pick for who will win the Superbowl.  LOL

ybiC,
Kab

 

[Christine]

Amen, kab. We CAN disagree and still treat one another with respect and dignity that should be afforded to all members of His Body.

When we all hit heavens gates, we will find out who was mistaken....wink...and then it won't matter one bit.

[Lu]

Hi
Just chiming in to tell you I'm in total agreement with what has been said here.
I can't tell you how good it feels to finally have people who sees things the same as me.
Thumbs up to Kab, Christine, Pastor Kurth, and Pastor Cole.

YFIC,  Lu

[Oasis]

Christine

When we all hit heavens gates, we will find out who was mistaken....wink...and then it won't matter one bit.

You guys will be so jealous when you find out I was right about everything!  LOL

Notice Lu mentioned my name first, so I must be the mostest rightest!  LOL

Seriously Lu, I agree.  It's nice to be able to be agreeable even when we disagree.

ybiC,
Kab 

[NewDawn]

Christine

When we all hit heavens gates, we will find out who was mistaken....wink...and then it won't matter one bit.

You guys will be so jealous when you find out I was right about everything!  LOL

Notice Lu mentioned my name first, so I must be the mostest rightest!  LOL

Seriously Lu, I agree.  It's nice to be able to be agreeable even when we disagree.

ybiC,
Kab 

Aye Kab, you almost made me spit water from my mouth as I was drinking when I read "the mostest rightest".  Sounds just like a phrase I would say!!  LOL!!!



Oh my post way up there, I know it didn't make sense.  I was trying to make a point but it got messed up.  Sorry!!