Problem 6 - That other NT Writers refer to the Rapture besides Paul

[Christine]

PROBLEM NO. 6--THAT OTHER NEW TESTAMENT WRITERS REFER To THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH BESIDES PAUL

The Scriptures where the Rapture is supposed to be found outside of Paul's letters are John 14:2-3; Rev. 4:1; 1 John 3:2; 1 Peter 1:3-5, and Matt. 24:37-42. The words 'come' and 'appear' are found in these passages. In addition, the Greek word 'PAROUSIA' is supposed to refer to the Second Coming of Christ.

 

THE TRUTH

The truth about the Lord coming in the air for the Body of Christ is unique to Pauline revelation. It is even called 'a mystery' in 1 Cor. 15:51, which links it to the Revelation of the Mystery spoken of in Romans 16:25.

Acts 2 believers accept this truth but think that the Rapture is also found outside of Paul's letters. What is found outside of Paul's letters is the Second Coming of Christ to earth. Let us briefly look at the five places where Acts 2 brethren can find the Rapture.

1. John 14:2-3. This is THE favorite verse of Acts 2 believers. They say that the 'many mansions' of verse 2 refers to dwelling places in heaven. The 'mansions' are supposed to be on streets of gold, alluding to the street of the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 (Rev. 21:21). The truth of the matter is that the 'many mansions' in the Father's house refer to the 'many rooms' in the Jewish Temple, especially the Temple that is going to be built for the Millennium according to the plans laid down for it by Ezekiel, chapters 40-48. The Greek word translated 'mansions' in verse 2 is also translated 'abode' in verse 23, 'make our abode with him.' These are the only two verses where this particular Greek noun, MONE, are used in the New Testament. 'My Father's house' is a phrase that had previously been used of the Temple in John 2:16, when the Lord Jesus cleansed the Temple at the beginning of His earthly ministry. That meaning never changed during our Lord's earthly ministry. 'My Father's house' does not refer to heaven.

2. Revelation 4:1. The book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Body of Christ. The book of Revelation is the fulfillment of the books of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the rest of the Old Testament prophets. Rev. 4:1 is just an invitation to John to come up and see what God has in store for Israel. The Body of Christ is not involved with the fulfillment of Israel's prophecies. (Comment will be made on the seven churches of Rev. 2 and 3 under Problem No. 11).

3. 1 John 3:2. This verse is taken from Psalm 17:15 which says, "As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness." David wrote this, and this will be fulfilled at the Second Coming when he is raised with all the Old Testament saints. John knew what he was writing about. Compare Zech. 12:10.

4. 1 Peter 1:3-5. The Apostle Peter could only write about the Second Coming of Christ. He wrote his two letters to the Jewish saints of the Acts period and encouraged them in relation to the Second Coming. He mentioned an inheritance reserved in heaven for them. This is nothing less than the Kingdom of heaven/ Kingdom of God that was 'at hand' when Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to them for 3-4 years. But because of Israel's unbelief and subsequent FALL (Ran. 11:11-15), this Kingdom has been put 'on hold' until this present Dispensation of grace is finished. The 'last time' of verse 5 is the Second Coming.

5. Matt. 24:37-42. This passage is also popular with Acts 2 brethren. It speaks of two people in the field and two people grinding at the mill when the Lord comes (verses 40-41). one is taken and the other left. The one who is taken is taken for judgment. The one who is left will go into the Millennium. One will be unfaithful, the other will be faithful. All of them are Jews. This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of Israel's Messiah to this earth. There is no Rapture here.

The Greek noun 'PAROUSIA' means 'coming, presence, advent, arrival.' It is used 24 times in the New Testament; of the Second Coming in Matt. 24:3,27,37,39, and 5 times by James, Peter and John in their epistles; of the coming of Christ for the Body of Christ, the Rapture, in 1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:1 (5 times); of the coming of antichrist in 2 Thess. 2:9; and of various comings of individual people. It is impossible to put the Second Coming into the letter of 1 Thessalonians.

The Rapture is to be considered as a major doctrine of Christianity, even though most believers do not believe in it. Careful research finds 55 verses in Paul's letters dealing with the Rapture, as follows:

1. Romans 5:2; 8:17-18,23,25; 11:25; 12:12; 13:11-12--9 verses
2. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 4:5; 5:4-5; 11:26; 13:12; 15:51-54; 16:22--12 verses
3. 2 Corinthians 1:9-10,14; 4:14--4 verses
4. Galatians 1:4; 5:5--2 verses
5. Ephesians 1:14; 4:13,30--3 verses
6. Philippians 1:6,10; 2:16; 3:11,20-21--6 verses
7. Colossians 3:4--1 verse
8. 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 2:19; 3:13; 4:13-18; 5:23--10 verses
9. 2 Thessalonians 2:1,3,7--3 verses
10. 1 Timothy 6:14-15--2 verses
11. 2 Timothy 4:1,8--2 verses
12. Titus 2:13--1 verse
Total verses=55

This makes the warning in 2 Timothy 4:8 all the more important in view of the skepticism about it that is found in the Body of Christ. However, you cannot argue against the fact that the Rapture is mentioned in all of Paul's letters except Philemon.

By Robert C. Brock

[LookingUp]

…
5. Matt. 24:37-42. This passage is also popular with Acts 2 brethren. It speaks of two people in the field and two people grinding at the mill when the Lord comes (verses 40-41). one is taken and the other left. The one who is taken is taken for judgment. The one who is left will go into the Millennium. One will be unfaithful, the other will be faithful. All of them are Jews. This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of Israel's Messiah to this earth. There is no Rapture here….

Wow!  Something just clicked here.  I had such trouble reconciling the gathering of the tares before the wheat (Matt. 13:24-30) and the judgment of the nations (Matt. 25:31-46).  The parable says the wicked are first gathered BY the angels into bundles but the wheat into the barn.  This would match the above about the two in the field, etc.  And it doesn’t say gather the tares and wheat and bring them before Me so I can separate them.

Mat. 25 says “all” nations are gathered before Him and then HE is the one who separates them one from another.  It has been said “all” nations includes Israel since it is a “nation”.  How can Israel be gathered before Him if they were already gathered by angles and bundled and separated (one for the fire and one for the barn)?

Some say that the gathering of tares and wheat are members of the Body.  BUT if a tare (unbeliever) is a tare, he is not part of the Body; he would be included with the Gentile nations.  This ("tare") unbeliever can't be gathered into a bundle by the angles once and then brought before Jesus to be separated again as a member of the unbelieving Gentiles!  I don't know if you are following me, but this is eye opening for me!

Matthew 13:24-30

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 25:31-46

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So, what do you think?  Two different judgments, correct? 

[Christine]

Wow!  Something just clicked here.  I had such trouble reconciling the gathering of the tares before the wheat (Matt. 13:24-30) and the judgment of the nations (Matt. 25:31-46).  The parable says the wicked are first gathered BY the angels into bundles but the wheat into the barn.  This would match the above about the two in the field, etc.  And it doesn’t say gather the tares and wheat and bring them before Me so I can separate them.

In your mind you are still putting both programs into what is being said in MATTHEW...when God has told us that in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John it is still talking ONLY about ISRAEL. The rapture is still a MYSTERY. Also keep in mind that Jesus speaks to them as if their program will move right on INTO the Great Tribulation, as this is the next thing on their NATIONAL agenda. God INTERRUPTED that program before the GREAT TRIBULATION began, and gave us a NEW apostle with a new message.

Read AGAIN with that in mind: The one who is left will go into the Millennium. One will be unfaithful, the other will be faithful. All of them are Jews. This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of
Israel's Messiah to this earth.

Mat. 25 says “all” nations are gathered before Him and then HE is the one who separates them one from another.
 

That is correct. He is speaking, again you MUST keep this in mind here, to ISRAEL as the channel of blessing to ALL THE OTHER "nations." Nations (plural) is generally used as referring to all EXCEPT Israel. She is referred to in the singular of "NATION."

It has been said “all” nations includes Israel since it is a “nation”.  How can Israel be gathered before Him if they were already gathered by angles and bundled and separated (one for the fire and one for the barn)?

Here is where you are mixing programs in mid stride. ONLY TODAY in the dispensation of GRACE is Israel considered among the "nations."

"God has concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF (Israel AND all the other "nations."), so that He might have mercy upon all." Romans 11:32

In this context, in MATTHEW, Israel still has her distinct status as a FAVORED NATION above all other "nations."

This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of
Israel's Messiah to this earth. The coming in the AIR of Christ for the church which is His BODY must happen FIRST!!!!!!!

Matthew 13:24-30

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 25:31-46

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So, what do you think?  Two different judgments, correct? 

 NO...incorrect!!!   Why?

Because of their placement in the scriptures and the fact that the Bible tells us that the MYSTERY was KEPT SECRET, and HID IN GOD until due time (which was when it was revealed to Paul), we can KNOW that these two things speak of the judgements having to do with ISRAEL alone. You are mixing them again.    The MYSTERY is NOT found in the prophetic books ANYWHERE. It is not yet revealed. Therefore, all that you see in Mt, Mk, Lk and Jn is information relating to ISRAEL alone under the KINGDOM program, whether in times PAST or ages to Come.

Do NOT read INTO the scriptures what YOU know from Pauls letters. THEY simply did not have that information ...YOU do, and YOU are to keep the two separate.

[LookingUp]

Wow!  Something just clicked here.  I had such trouble reconciling the gathering of the tares before the wheat (Matt. 13:24-30) and the judgment of the nations (Matt. 25:31-46).  The parable says the wicked are first gathered BY the angels into bundles but the wheat into the barn.  This would match the above about the two in the field, etc.  And it doesn’t say gather the tares and wheat and bring them before Me so I can separate them.

In your mind you are still putting both programs into what is being said in MATTHEW...when God has told us that in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John it is still talking ONLY about ISRAEL. The rapture is still a MYSTERY. Also keep in mind that Jesus speaks to them as if their program will move right on INTO the Great Tribulation, as this is the next thing on their NATIONAL agenda. God INTERRUPTED that program before the GREAT TRIBULATION began, and gave us a NEW apostle with a new message.

Read AGAIN with that in mind: The one who is left will go into the Millennium. One will be unfaithful, the other will be faithful. All of them are Jews. This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of
Israel's Messiah to this earth.

Mat. 25 says “all” nations are gathered before Him and then HE is the one who separates them one from another.
 

That is correct. He is speaking, again you MUST keep this in mind here, to ISRAEL as the channel of blessing to ALL THE OTHER "nations." Nations (plural) is generally used as referring to all EXCEPT Israel. She is referred to in the singular of "NATION."

It has been said “all” nations includes Israel since it is a “nation”.  How can Israel be gathered before Him if they were already gathered by angles and bundled and separated (one for the fire and one for the barn)?

Here is where you are mixing programs in mid stride. ONLY TODAY in the dispensation of GRACE is Israel considered among the "nations."

"God has concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF (Israel AND all the other "nations."), so that He might have mercy upon all." Romans 11:32

In this context, in MATTHEW, Israel still has her distinct status as a FAVORED NATION above all other "nations."

This passage illustrates one of the events that will take place at the Second Coming of
Israel's Messiah to this earth. The coming in the AIR of Christ for the church which is His BODY must happen FIRST!!!!!!!

Matthew 13:24-30

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 25:31-46

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So, what do you think?  Two different judgments, correct? 

 NO...incorrect!!!   Why?

Because of their placement in the scriptures and the fact that the Bible tells us that the MYSTERY was KEPT SECRET, and HID IN GOD until due time (which was when it was revealed to Paul), we can KNOW that these two things speak of the judgements having to do with ISRAEL alone. You are mixing them again.    The MYSTERY is NOT found in the prophetic books ANYWHERE. It is not yet revealed. Therefore, all that you see in Mt, Mk, Lk and Jn is information relating to ISRAEL alone under the KINGDOM program, whether in times PAST or ages to Come.

Do NOT read INTO the scriptures what YOU know from Pauls letters. THEY simply did not have that information ...YOU do, and YOU are to keep the two separate.

I'm not talking about the Body - I don't see the Body here (although others claim too).  The two judgments I'm referring to are: Israel (tares/wheat & one taken/one left) and the Nations (sheep/goat in Mat. 25).

That's my point... that this is a great "argument" that it cannot BE the Body at all.  I wrote, "Some say that the gathering of tares and wheat are members of the Body (& the apostates).  BUT if a tare is an unbeliever, he is not part of the Body; he would be included with the Gentile nations.  This ("tare") unbeliever can't be gathered into a bundle by the angels once (Mat. 13) and then brought before Jesus to be separated again (Mat. 25) as a member of the unbelieving Gentiles."

[Christine]

I'm not talking about the Body - I don't see the Body here (although others claim too).  The two judgments I'm referring to are: Israel (tares/wheat & one taken/one left) and the Nations (sheep/goat in Mat. 25).

Ohhhhhhhhhh....good grief, color me dumb here ...LOL LOL.

I am soooo glad you DON'T see any Body here  ....yes, I am in agreement.

That's my point... that this is a great "argument" that it cannot BE the Body at all.  I wrote, "Some say that the gathering of tares and wheat are members of the Body (& the apostates).  BUT if a tare is an unbeliever, he is not part of the Body; he would be included with the Gentile nations.  This ("tare") unbeliever can't be gathered into a bundle by the angels once (Mat. 13) and then brought before Jesus to be separated again (Mat. 25) as a member of the unbelieving Gentiles."

I apologize for NOT seeing what you were saying here. This medium is famous for misunderstanding what is being said, and I am just as apt to fall prey as anyone, as we have just shown. 

Thank you for clarifying it for me! Huuuuugs