UNITY at the Cost of TRUTH

[BOC560]

Thanks for sharing, ya know, if everyone were to just pick ONE item off of that list, like 'A. Be a nice person.', it's, shall we say, 'non denominational', just for example, wouldn't the world be a beautiful place? 

Well yes, it would certainly make things go much more smoothly in this world.  The problem with it is when we go to the NEXT world.  God is rather adamant about His criteria for salvation.  If we look at the prophets in the Old Testament, they made no compromise in God’s program in order to appease the world.  Actually, the people were so angered by God’s prophets that they killed them.  Judaism was the only method by which a man could be saved in the O.T. and the only way to salvation was either by obedience to the Law of Moses as a Jew or by obedience to the Law of Moses as a Jewish Proselyte. 

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Judaism was fully in effect all the way up through Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. It was a performance / reward based system.  (IF you keep My commandments – THEN you will be My people and I will be your God – ELSE you will receive curses and condemnation)

Christ Jesus revealed a new salvation system to Saul on the road to Damascus that is fully in effect today (we call it Christianity).  God tells us under the rules of Christianity that nobody can be saved by obedience.  So choice “A.  Be a nice person.”  doesn’t work for salvation. God says you’re NOT a nice person.  He says I am NOT a nice person and even though I’d like to think of myself as such, God says NOBODY is a nice person.   

On being nice, we’d probably give Hitler an “F” and we’d maybe give Billy Graham an “A-.”  Under Christianity, God doesn’t grade on the curve however.  Based on their performance and obedience they would both be destined for the BAD PLACE.  They both would be lacking spiritual LIFE because they cannot create RIGHTEOUSNESS (a right standing before the eyes of God).  Only by accepting Christ’s own righteousness can we be justified and receive eternal LIFE.   

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So while a good many of the choices on that list may sound pretty good to us, we have to compare each one with God’s Word to see if it will buy us a ticket to heaven – (salvation) according to the criteria that He proclaims.  By narrowing those options down to one, we will be making a lot of people angry and our path in this world will not be smooth.  If you stand for God, you will receive much of what the prophets and the disciples received.  (Rocks!)  That is why religion is quick to accept all faiths and all denominations in the name of Unity.  Do not be deceived for Christ is our righteousness unto life.

[BOC560]

I have always been taught that to be saved by the lord Jesus Christ to simply pray and ask him to forgive you and you are born again.

You don't get to heaven by doing good deeds, but you do get to him through the Lord Jesus Christ, I wish I remembered the bible verse right now. Something in Romans I think...

That is a very good point for you see, a typical Jewish man has always been taught that he must keep the Sabbath (don’t work or travel on Saturday) and obey the Law of Moses if he hopes to enter the Kingdom of God.  (Salvation by The Law)

Tens of thousands of Baptists are being taught they must repent of their sins, be water baptized and to keep short accounts with the Lord for their salvation.  If they backslide, their salvation is lost and they can never again be saved.  (Conditional Salvation)

Other Baptist ordained ministers teach that you must repent of your sins, be water baptized and live the Christian life and your salvation is sealed until the day of redemption.  A failure to display a Godly life revokes this salvation however.  (Lordship Salvation)

The Catholic Church teaches that all the Protestants are going to their destruction because the Apostolic Lineage from Peter, down through the generations of popes to the present day exists only in the ‘true’ church.  Having no Apostolic Lineage, all protestant churches lack the divine power to save anybody.  (If this is true, you might have a problem if you're not Catholic.)

Huge numbers of teachers and ordained ministers are teaching that God decided if He loved you before you were born and that Jesus did NOT die for everyone.  They teach that Jesus’ sacrifice was not provided as restitution for the sins of Pharaoh, for Saul or for Judas (and obviously not for YOU if you don’t attend their church).  (Calvinism)

If you live within 500 miles of Salt Lake City, you would probably be learning that the power of salvation was restored to earth by the modern-day prophet, Joseph Smith and only members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have any access to salvation.  (Mormonism)

Millions will perish because they were brought up to believe in this church or in that church or in no church.  The big question here is “What does God say is necessary for salvation?”  (The Law?  Calvinism?  Catholicism?  Lordship Salvation?  Mormonism? )  You cannot afford to be wrong.  Let’s face it; all of us have been taught something or other.  It is up to us to test it against scripture to see if it is true.

2 Corinthians 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in THE faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Eph.4:5  "One Lord, ONE FAITH, One baptism."

So, as we can see. It is NOT what we have "BEEN TAUGHT", but "what saith the SCRIPTURES" that will determine the plumbline for TRUTH that all of us will be held to when we stand before God. And it will be "what saith the scriptures RIGHTLY DIVIDED."

[MaricoG]

So, as we can see. It is NOT what we have "BEEN TAUGHT", but "what saith the SCRIPTURES" that will determine the plumbline for TRUTH that all of us will be held to when we stand before God. And it will be "what saith the scriptures RIGHTLY DIVIDED."

I read that we will be judged by... Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Is that judge our secrets our inward self for our salvation?  Or is that someone elses judgement, because we are already sealed in the Holy Spirit?  Or is this judgement for rewards?

Also...when someone comes to the Lord by right diviision...do they not repent?  I cannot understand how anyone would believe in Jesus until they see a need for Jesus, by seeing their own sin and need for the Saviour....  Comment please.  :-)

[Christine]

I read that we will be judged by... Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Is that judge our secrets our inward self for our salvation?  Or is that someone elses judgement, because we are already sealed in the Holy Spirit?  Or is this judgement for rewards?

Under the Kingdom Gospel (the only gospel John was familiar with), repentance and confession WENT TOGETHER. This is seen when we read about John the Baptist's ministry and what he taught. Matthew 3:6 says, "and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins." Repentance is mentioned in verses 2,8,11 - three times. We find this also in Mark 1:4-5, "John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. [5] Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins." And this is what 1 John 1 is all about, that fellowship with the Father and His Son involved the baptism of repentance and the confession of sins. John calls his fellow Jewish brethren 'little children,' as if they had not grown up yet. It is significant that the phrase 'little children' is used only by John (8 times) and Paul (once - John 13:33; Gal. 4:19; 1 John 2:1,12,28; 3:7,18; 4:4; 5:21). The Greek noun is TEKNION, meaning 'little child,' those in a nursery.


We will all be judged as to how we handled Gods present day message of salvation as given to OUR apostle for we who are the BODY of Christ. If we believed Pauls gospel we ARE saved. If we go on to rightly divide and see the difference between the gospel of a different kind and the gospel of our salvation we will be given rewards for that as well. If we are simply saved by believing the death, burial and resurrection as Gods ONLY solution for mankinds sin problem today, but continue mixing the gospels, we will lose rewards, but not our salvation. Many are saved but don't know right division. You do not have to know right division to be saved, as many trust in the finished work of Christ but don't know the mystery truths as given to Paul.

Also...when someone comes to the Lord by right diviision...do they not repent?  I cannot understand how anyone would believe in Jesus until they see a need for Jesus, by seeing their own sin and need for the Saviour....  Comment please.  :-)

Repentance for Israel meant to change THEIR mind about who their Messiah was, and to follow THEIR instructions given to THEM by God. Peter spelled those instructions out..."repent and be baptized."

Repentance for US means to change OUR mind about how God makes a man righteous in this age of GRACE. It is thru the imputed righteousness of ANOTHER..ie: GRACE thru faith in the finished work of Christ. We are offered Christs test score on OUR paper for simply believing that His work on the Cross was SUFFICIENT. If it was NOT sufficient , Christ would NOT have risen from the dead. The resurrection is PROOF POSITIVE that ALL sins for ALL time were paid for and ACCEPTED as "Payment in FULL" for all mankind.

 During this Age of grace, believers have been forgiven ALL of their sins - past, present, and future - when we accepted the Lord Jesus as our Saviour and Lord. The Divine agent for this is the blood of Christ (Eph. 1:7-we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins; Col. 1:14-we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins; and two verses having to do with ALL of our sins, Col. 2:13 and Titus 2:14). If you have doubts about your future sins, please remember that when Jesus died on the cross for you, ALL of your sins were in the future.

Now it is true that after we are saved, we still commit sins. Sometimes our sins can hurt others, and sometimes other believer's sins can hurt us. What are we to do? We are TO FORGIVE them just as the Lord has forgiven us, graciously, lovingly, and mercifully (Eph., 4:32). Paul says nothing about confessing our sins to God or to anyone else, for that matter.


2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is relating to how God makes a man righteous in todays economy. See the difference?



Does this help?

[MaricoG]

Yes.  You wrote an excellent post!  Thank you!

Many are saved but don't know right division. You do not have to know right division to be saved, as many trust in the finished work of Christ but don't know the mystery truths as given to Paul.

I wish I had thought to use those two sentences last week...as I think that was a lot of my fiiends confusion, thinking the grace message says they were unsaved.  sigh.

Another quick question...Paul said this: Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So the confession is the belief in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross for us, his death, burial and resurrection.  That is not two parts, but one?  Because you would only confess Him if you believe.....

[BOC560]

I'm a Christian, I've always been one, and I always plan on being one.

Everyone has sinned sometime in their life. (Except Jesus) the only way to get to heaven by doing good deeds is to have been perfect and to have never sinned, which is none of us, we're all tainted by sin. So then when God saw this, he sent his son, Jesus, to come down to earth and to die on the cross for our sins so that we COULD get to heaven through him. This was also predicted in the Bible, John 3:16, "For God so loved the earth so that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

There it is...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 10 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

These are powerful scriptures.  They merit our study as sacred scripture; they inform us of our relationship with God.  Notice first of all that these are found in the ‘gospel’ books.  Next, look at the doctrine that Luke records to procure ‘everlasting life.’  “What is written in the law?”  No mention of believing on the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus for payment of sins is here.  This is still the LAW program- Judaism.  People in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were being offered Judaism. 

Now let’s skip ahead to Romans and see how things have progressed:

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Most obviously, something major has happened to salvation.  Someplace between the gospel books and Romans, we have changed to a completely different plan of salvation.  At this point, we are NOT under the LAW, but under GRACE!  This is not Judaism.  This is Christianity! 

This is why it is of no small thing to determine where this change took place.  We want our salvation to be based upon scripture that applies to us; the body of Christ.

Notice that Judaism did not offer salvation apart from the Law of Moses.  .
The basic principle of Christianity was not even a consideration in the gospel books. 

Luke 18  31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
   32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
   33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
   34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

By these scriptures, we can see that the 12 disciples had no concept of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as a means of salvation.  This was still 100% Judaism (salvation by faith PLUS works).

We need to look at the issue of our salvation very carefully, understanding it from top to bottom and inside out, because this is where we live or die.  We don’t want to miss it.

[Christine]

Good discussion here...take a look!

[Oasis]

Richard Land said, “What we need today is not a return to the past, but a turning to a future that has never been: a healthy pluralism in which all views are allowed, encouraged, and respected, and in which a healthy respect for the value of religion in America’s past, present, and future permeates society.”

I've been reading through several threads and this one caught my eye.  I've heard Land make a few comments like this one over the last year that have concerned me.  This way of thinking is in lockstep with Rick Warren's theology of all roads lead to Heaven, so let's just concentrate on making the roads here better.  Rick Warren and many like him are just making the earth a better place to go to Hell from. 

The Southern Baptist Convention is completely in love with The Purpose Driven apostacy.  This love affair seems to be escalating now that Frank Page is at the helm.  The Baptist Messenger, which is Oklahoma's 3rd largest newspaper, put out an issue about 3 months ago that was completely dedicated to the ministry and praise of Rick Warren.  This was the final straw for us.  We'd taken the Baptist Messenger for years, but over the last year have seen many disturbing things said in the issues.  We canceled our subscription and told them why.  Of course there was no response other than, "we're sorry you feel that way". 

When I think of people like Rick Warren, Schuller, Pat Robertson, etc...I'm reminded of the words of Lawrence White, a Lutheran pastor. 
He said,

The moral meltdown that has overtaken America has been met with a deafening silence from the pulpits of America, and the people-pleasing preachers who presume to stand in them. This desolation of decency could not have occurred if the pulpits of this land were once again aflame with righteousness. To use Alexis De Toqueville’s famous words, "By our apathy, by our acquiescence, and by our ignorance, the church of Jesus Christ has consigned itself to irrelevance and impotence in the ongoing struggle for the soul of America."

The rest of what he said is here:

http://www.hiswayministries.org/fdsilence.htm

It is well worth the read, and very sobering.

If anyone would like a good read on our country's shift toward pluralism I would direct you to Ravi Zacharias's book entitled, "Deliver Us From Evil".  Ravi is the head of a ministry called, RZIM(Ravi Zacharias International Ministry)and he has a radio show called, "Let My People Think".

Have a great day!

ybiC,
Kab       

[Christine]

I've been reading through several threads and this one caught my eye.  I've heard Land make a few comments like this one over the last year that have concerned me.  This way of thinking is in lockstep with Rick Warren's theology of all roads lead to Heaven, so let's just concentrate on making the roads here better.  Rick Warren and many like him are just making the earth a better place to go to Hell from. 

The Southern Baptist Convention is completely in love with The Purpose Driven apostacy.  This love affair seems to be escalating now that Frank Page is at the helm.  The Baptist Messenger, which is Oklahoma's 3rd largest newspaper, put out an issue about 3 months ago that was completely dedicated to the ministry and praise of Rick Warren.  This was the final straw for us.  We'd taken the Baptist Messenger for years, but over the last year have seen many disturbing things said in the issues.  We canceled our subscription and told them why.  Of course there was no response other than, "we're sorry you feel that way".

We have one of those "purpose driven churches" here in Crossville and it really saddens me every time we drive by it. How tragic that we have adopted the worlds way of soft peddling what SHOULD be a "wake up and smell the coffee" message. We have become so afraid of "offending" people that we don't even stand for truth and let the truth do her work.

We all need to face it...the CROSS is offensive. Christ being the ONLY way is offensive. Religion having gotten it WRONG, is offensive.

   The problem isn't with the message, it is with US. We are too afraid to put ourselves out there on the line and be "rejected, made fun of, or worse." Our first priority has become our own personal "comfort zone" and how we can "fit in" with those who , unfortunately, prefer "religion" to the clearly  presented truths of Gods Word. We will not leave our comfort zone to endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. OUCH....does that smart, or what?

When I think of people like Rick Warren, Schuller, Pat Robertson, etc...I'm reminded of the words of Lawrence White, a Lutheran pastor. 
He said,
The moral meltdown that has overtaken America has been met with a deafening silence from the pulpits of America, and the people-pleasing preachers who presume to stand in them. This desolation of decency could not have occurred if the pulpits of this land were once again aflame with righteousness. To use Alexis De Toqueville’s famous words, "By our apathy, by our acquiescence, and by our ignorance, the church of Jesus Christ has consigned itself to irrelevance and impotence in the ongoing struggle for the soul of America."

I read the article and it WAS indeed sobering. We really don't HAVE much time to make a stand....I wonder what these next ten years will bring, don't you? It is a scary proposition, but hey...we are here for HIS purposes and NOT our own.

I had to laff at the title of the book you recommended. "LET MY PEOPLE THINK"....great title!

Isn't that the REAL issue here? Instead of blindly following so that we might stand united with all of our church buddies and pastors, and maintain the status quo of a comfort zone for all, why don't we try THINKING, and actually LOOKING at what the scriptures DO SAY, and having a "metanoia" moment of great significance that just MIGHT change our LIVES!